 |
| Marie Forleo's crafty marketing blurs any ability to discern quality or genuine satisfaction with her "insanely popular" B-School |
Or maybe it simply means you’re not on the internet at all.
Because like scotch broom in the springtime, her pretty face is popping up everywhere.
A horde, it seems, of mostly women have handed over $2,000 to participate in this 8-week online “business school”, which Forleo created over a decade ago to assist “big hearted creatives” seek their fortune online.
Former students rave about Forleo, attributing their online success and "financial freedom" to her brilliant B-School.
All this hype begs the question: what is the B-School, exactly? And who is Forleo? Does she have something to sell?
Misfit to Millionaire
44-year-old Forleo, who describes herself as a multi-passionate entrepreneur, authored the NYT bestseller Everything is Figureoutable and has worked as a life coach since before it was cool.
Out of disdain for anything that’s trending, whenever her name popped up in podcast interviews, I’d systematically block her out.
However, when her face ran across my Instagram feed last month, asking me if "today was the day that changes *everything*", I finally signed up for her e-mail.
She’d hit me at a weak moment. I’d had a clueless afternoon wandering but avoiding human contact in Hong Kong, where school cancellations due to the coronavirus has left me without a job, indefinitely.
If Marie proclaims that everything was figureoutable, maybe she could help me figure this one out.
She’d hit me at a weak moment. I’d had a clueless afternoon wandering but avoiding human contact in Hong Kong, where school cancellations due to the coronavirus has left me without a job, indefinitely.
If Marie proclaims that everything was figureoutable, maybe she could help me figure this one out.
The sign-up coincided (not coincidentally!) with a three-part video series where Forleo introduces B-School.
With wavy, waist-length locks that are a little too styled, blush and foundation that are just a little too much, and a rotating assortments of pastel tops, Bambi-eyed Marie started appearing on the scene. Or, that is, on my screen. And in earnest, simple language, presented her business course.
“What I’m about to share is not some get-rich-quick scheme…there are no silver bullets and there are no magic formulas....If you take this seriously, if you hunker down and you give it your all, what you can achieve in modern business is so far beyond what you can imagine....We’ve got one of the most supporting and loving and generous communities you will ever find online...My goal is to help you run a business that’s highly profitable and highly fulfilling.”
Nauseating warm-fuzzies such as “standing shoulder to shoulder”, “big-hearted”, “learners are earners” and “the world really needs that very special gift that only you have” are sprinkled throughout.
Her school is right for everyone. Coaches, makers, artists: her graduates span 148 industries, and include business newbies, serial entrepreneurs, people who know nothing about business and people with Ivy League MBAs.
“Big hearted, passionate people like you and me are wired to succeed in this digital world,” Marie coaches. And she assures that “effective, authentic, results-driven marketing is a skill set that honestly ANYBODY can learn.”
Forleo herself, she says, went from thousands of dollars in debt and living in her parents New Jersey home with plastic-covered couches to earning thousands upon tens of thousands--every MONTH--online. She doesn't specify what she sold, nor how long it took.
Forleo herself, she says, went from thousands of dollars in debt and living in her parents New Jersey home with plastic-covered couches to earning thousands upon tens of thousands--every MONTH--online. She doesn't specify what she sold, nor how long it took.
A litany of testimonials succeed her vagaries. Forleo has a penchant for the misfit to millionaire narrative, and for all her talk about enabling people to give back, the case studies emphasized the wealth her graduates have amassed since B-School.
The testimonials include a lead-generation expert who hit six figures within a year of B-School and just bought her dream house, a high-school-teacher gone nutritionist who now has a book deal, a podcast and newsletter with 35K subscribers, a river rafting company that earns six figures and is only open four months a year, and a jewelry maker who has to pinch herself as she now earns $150K a year.
Unbelievable success! There MUST be fairy dust Marie sprinkles onto her student.
Mayi Carles, a B-School grad who sells coaching services and courses, recently said in a Forleo Instagram advert that she just bought her 2nd house. I've seen Carles online for years, and the ad doesn’t clarify that it’s been a good ten years since she completed B-School.
And in an e-mail titled "Before B-School, she had no home", Forleo shares a testimonial from a recent grad who went from purposeless, in debt to her eyeballs, no business plan, no idea even of what she’d sell, to three months later having earned $2.5K as a writer—and she doesn’t even have a website yet! Oh, and now she’s off to the Caribbean with her laptop.
Forleo breaks down what the program covers (some of these deets were fuzzy……still scratching my head wondering where the magic is in all this magic that isn’t magic), and it includes how to use Google Analytics and build a Wordpress site.
Um, isn’t this kind of Internet 101? Things I can figure out in an afternoon at YouTube University?
Well, maybe, I figured, you join for the community--“one of the most supporting and loving and generous communities you will ever find online” is probably worth $2K, right?
Assurances of building castles in the air assuaged me more than a Netflix-binge. I found myself watching Marie’s videos repeatedly. And e-mails with titles like “Is B-School Right for You? Find Out 👉” started showing up in my inbox. She was reading. my. fucking. mind.
I don’t really have a business idea, or a product….yet, should I sign up?
B-School felt like the dress that looks really good in the dressing room, but you aren't sure you'll ever wear.
I clicked through to the B-School sign-up page, which had headlines that assured me “I was there for a reason” and “that inner voice was correct. Your feelings are on point.” Hm...for a school about business, she talks a lot about listening to and trusting your feelings.
A corner box indicating recent B-School registrants popped up with a Klondike-Gold-Rush kind of frenzy.
A corner box indicating recent B-School registrants popped up with a Klondike-Gold-Rush kind of frenzy.
Hm...., again. That’s a lot of signups in the few minutes I’ve been on here. How much money is she making with this? And how much community can you really achieve in a group this size?
“There’s something about the mirrors in those places,” my sister would lament, after agonizing over t-shirts in the dressing room at Mervyn’s, and returning home with a doozie.
Did a smoking hot woman have me bewitched?
I needed external confirmation. And went to the internet for answers.
Smoke and mirrors indeed.
Marie the Mirage
A simple “Forleo B-School” Google search brings up scores of pretty blogs full of fluffy copy from B-School attendees raving about the program—and who receive $1,000 for anyone who signs up through their site.
A more probing “b-school sucks” or “b school scam” search reveals more of the same glossy reviews and a thin layer of dirt. I found a @bschoolsucks twitter account with two followers, some critical but moderate Reddit threads, and this critical but still congratulatory post.
For someone with her caliber of success; Forleo mingles with Hollywood’s loveliest (Oprah, Sir Richard Branson); it’s inevitable she's garnered critics. Droves of them. Some genuine, some trolls, but they exist.
Yet they don’t seem to exist online.
If Google is a Goliath, then Forleo is King David, discerning the weakness in its armor and slaying with dozens upon dozens of affiliate reviews.
But if the only information about Marie is from profiteers, it’s impossible to tell who the hell she really is.
"It’s not about what you sell, it’s about how you package and position it," Marie cites as the crux of her methodology. Her book Make Every Man Want You: How to Be So Damn Irresistible You’ll Barely Keep From Dating Yourself sold just because of the title, she says in her videos. Had it been named A Guide to Living in the Present Moment, it wouldn’t have sold at all.
Who was this dolled-up woman, promising me through my computer screen that I could have it all?
Behind Oz’s Curtain: Marie Kool-Aid
With my shovel and spade, I kept digging through Google search results and finally broke through the impenetrable topsoil of affiliate reviews to the 2011 blog post “Broke, Happy & Hot: #1 Reason I’m Not Going to B School”.
In the post, artist Gwyn Michael writes she's too broke for B-School (at the time its byline was "Rich, Happy & Hot"). She speculates it may be a lot of sizzle without any steak, then corroborates that Marie's addictive and she's off to watch more of her free videos.
In the post, artist Gwyn Michael writes she's too broke for B-School (at the time its byline was "Rich, Happy & Hot"). She speculates it may be a lot of sizzle without any steak, then corroborates that Marie's addictive and she's off to watch more of her free videos.
But it was in the 630 comments, from people who’d either completed B-School or who were on the verge of punching in their credit cards, that I knew I’d come across fertile soil.
Real people wrote these comments, using English and not fluff-jargon. Artists, writers, makers, seasoned in digital marketing, entrepreneurship, and the struggle to make a living from art.
Their camaraderie had the intimacy of a “let it out” session you’d have with a few family members after Thanksgiving dinner. The REAL safe where you can rant without inhibition.
And man do they let their hair down.
“Marie Forleo is a total fake and today the 6 or 7 thousand people that enrolled are running like headless chickens in the Facebook group called B-School Babes” one review starts off.
About the B-School program, they say:
“Marie Forleo promises a Ferrari in her marketing videos – but you get a bicycle.”
"She’s selling snake oil disguised as Chanel perfume."
“The program is a bunch of slideshows….stuff you can find for free all over the internet…or from an online marketing for dummies book at the book store.”
“B-school forces you to do a BRAIN DUMP. Endless worksheets asking you stupid questions so you write everything and do a brain download. 2 months later you realize all you’ve been doing is writing nonsense and have NO business started.”
And Marie's marketing:
“The ONLY reason why you can’t find bad/negative reviews is because ONLY affiliates write reviews and they get a 50% commission for each program sold (USD $1,000)”
“Marie is spends too much $$$$$$$$$$$$ in the video campaign but NOTHING in the program itself.”
And the “unparalleled” B-School community:
“There is no real connection. A feed with thousands of comments from TOO many women.”
“They’re not the sharpest pencils.”
“The community is filled with highly overwhelmed and highly emotional women which slows you down.”
“The B-School Facebook group can be like such a cult sometimes, since all negativity (and thus healthy critique) is banned.”
“I stay away from the “community” – it’s a black hole, it swallows you.”
The most disconcerting reviews were those written about “Marie Kool-Aid”:
“I find what she is doing to be even more damaging than merely robbing people of their $2K (which is damaging enough!). She’s creating an entire movement of people who are convinced that great packaging and positioning is ALL that is required to have a great business. So no, she’s not helping people share with the world “that special gift that only YOU have”, she is helping them learn to be hucksters.”
“This woman is all about sales sales sales… if she was so dedicated to making a “contribution” she would be more generous inside the program which is old, outdated, GIVES BAD ADVICE and keeps you stuck.”
“In her productivity bonus, Marie Forleo says: “WHEN I HIRE SOMEBODY, I CHECK THAT SHE DOESN’T WANT TO START A BUSINESS, I WOULDN’T WANT HER TO LEARN ALL MY SECRETS AND USE THEM TO START HER OWN. Shocking words!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
Two commenters provided links that no longer exist: one to a Quora forum "Has Anyone Enrolled in B-School and Been Disappointed" and the other to the url "MarieForleoSucks.Com". (What kind of cachet does Marie have, to be able to clean up all around the internet?)
How to interpret oodles of well-concealed criticism? As an affiliate review put it: "Say what you want about Marie, she manages her online reputation like a BOSS." Which, of course, is doublespeak for, "Marie buries critics by paying off people like me to rave about her."
How to interpret oodles of well-concealed criticism? As an affiliate review put it: "Say what you want about Marie, she manages her online reputation like a BOSS." Which, of course, is doublespeak for, "Marie buries critics by paying off people like me to rave about her."
Marie the Magician
This rot beneath the floorboards finally provided a glimpse at the real Marie Forleo inside the pretty packaging.
In her B-School introductory videos, Marie states:
And she's clearly marketing B-School using schemes not covered in the program: nowhere does she say B-School teaches affiliate marketing.
And making undesirable websites and forums go "poof" is not part of "a skill set that honestly ANYBODY can learn."
Not at all, in fact. That level of manipulation borders on wizardry.
In her B-School introductory videos, Marie states:
"Modern marketing is all about adding value and building real trust way before you ever ask for the sale...it's about being honest and transparent...there's nothing gross or pushy or scammy about it."But burying criticism with a quid pro quo isn't transparency.
And she's clearly marketing B-School using schemes not covered in the program: nowhere does she say B-School teaches affiliate marketing.
And making undesirable websites and forums go "poof" is not part of "a skill set that honestly ANYBODY can learn."
Not at all, in fact. That level of manipulation borders on wizardry.
$2,000 For a Kick in the Pants
Despite withholding her marketing tactics and the “business secrets she won’t share with ANYONE”, does Forleo teach anything worthwhile in her business school?
For sure, it teaches basic internet skills, which, yeah, an orangoutang could learn on its own. But, without a kick in the pants, would it?
As one reviewer from Gwyn Michael’s post wrote (the only positive comment I came across):
“I wanted all the information in one place, presented in a clean and appealing format and that is what I got. I don’t really mind that I could have found similar materials for free on the web….I needed a kick up the bum to actually work on my business, so an outlay of $2k made me stick to the program….My business is doing well (and no, I am not an affiliate!) It is doing well because I applied consistent effort to it.”
I’ve been there. I’ve been the artist with customers who RAVE and want more and more of what I’m making, but who’s earning NOTHING. Why? In part, I’d assess, because my marketing consisted of a lame Twitter account, a blog I’d take 12-months breaks from, no Instagram, and boring and sporadic newsletters.
Sometimes a “get REAL, girlfriend” splash of cold water is what’s needed for a business to grow. And maybe, for some, Forleo provides that.
The only other tangible benefit she offers, that I can see, is what the Wizard of Oz offered to Dorothy, the Scarecrow, and the Tin Man: by having faith in her promise that “success comes from consistently taking action”, you will eventually get there.
Although the materialistic, ruby-studded “there” implied in the testimonies is probably unattainable.
Could I have leveraged a handmade wallet business (without outsourcing to sweatshops China, which is antithetical to the "handmade movement") to $150K a year? Doubtful.
Her implicit “if you aren’t pinching yourself because your life is a sheer fantasy, it’s because you haven’t put in the effort” is sheer nonsense.
And nowhere does she point out that no musician became a concert pianist in 8 weeks. No matter how amaHAZing her program is, she can’t assure you floods of sales for your scarf and hat business if you’ve just learned how to crochet.
Developing that kind of skill, entirely separate from business, takes a decade.
And the Verdict Is....
Guru or a charlatan?
I cannot say. But, Marie (I'm looking at you!): someone who has real faith in the product they're selling would say: “bring the critics on!” Instead, you bury dissatisfied women underneath affiliate reviews.
I cannot say. But, Marie (I'm looking at you!): someone who has real faith in the product they're selling would say: “bring the critics on!” Instead, you bury dissatisfied women underneath affiliate reviews.
And I won’t be taking B-School to find out.
This afternoon I balked at $45 Bobbi Brown foundation that I REALLY NEEDED, so won’t be coughing up $2K to figure out if B-School is “magic” or just a bunch of mantras and common sense I can apply on my own.
This afternoon I balked at $45 Bobbi Brown foundation that I REALLY NEEDED, so won’t be coughing up $2K to figure out if B-School is “magic” or just a bunch of mantras and common sense I can apply on my own.
Have you taken B-school?
Please don’t say you've 10X-ed your income working four-hour days and spend the afternoons swimming in a pool of gold coins.
Cause if you do, I'm going to tell you to pinch yourself and wake up.
Cause if you do, I'm going to tell you to pinch yourself and wake up.
It is interesting to see all of these courses that helps people become an entrepreneur. It definitely takes some time to build some wealth, but there is a right direction to take towards that, especially with getting some of the right resources on hand. 2k isn't exactly easy to hand over, so it really needs to work! There's always a risk involved with taking these courses. Of course, you can't always trust the reviews @__@. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
ReplyDeleteNancy ♥ exquisitely.me
Hi Julie! I’m so happy to have found your post. I've been having exactly the same hunch that something isn't right here...impossible to find negative reviews with all these affiliates.
ReplyDeleteI've seen her course content and it is incredibly shallow. As you said, nothing you can't learn online. Even when wanting a neat curriculum of content, there are plenty of affordable (or even free) courses, from universities and real scholars even. I've studied business and marketing and been 'out there' in real life. And it simply makes me sad that people buy into an illusion that she's marketing in such a glossed-over way.
I had been following Marie for a long time. And have been sucked into the illusion she's selling, ruining years of my life buying into the kind of dream she promotes. The way she presents her empire really is a black hole that sucks you in, if you are vulnerable enough.
The saddest thing, really, is that when you look at all those graduates and affiliates, a huge number has become a second Marie Forleo, being a coach, selling online courses etc. In short: getting rich by telling you how to get rich (but of course packaging this into a niche-focused, innocent, kick-ass slogan). It is a sensitive topic because I do think she believes that she is doing the right thing and would never suspect that it might be time to take responsibility in what is actually happening.
Also, I am happy for those B-School graduates with a genuine business who could find the support and structure they needed to achieve success. That's exactly the problem. It all sounds like the right thing, with tons of proof out there, but in reality supporting that online guru/online coaching bubble that I do hope will implode at some point…
And what actually is her own entrepreneurial story? Being a life-coach and then coaching about building a business sharing "how she's done it". Emphasizing the misery of real-life 9-to-5 jobs that she could escape from...
Building a business requires real skill in what you produce to sell (whether it's a product or service..), - the rest, if what you offer really meets the need of your target market, is not magic at all. There are no secrets...that need for 'secrets' is given when real core-value is missing...
And as she emphasizes "don't think you shouldn't do it because other people are already doing the same...you are unique..." etc. - No. Just no. - An attitude that is eradicating any need for value innovation, true skill and forward-thinking.
What she's promoting and how she does it really isn't how I want to see the world of business and entrepreneurship evolve.
Again, I do know that she is doing a lot of good things. She donates to charities etc, hosts many interesting conversations in her YouTube show and so on...it is a matter of perspective though. By human nature, there won't ever be a common agreement on any subject, and that's ok. But as said, there is this element of responsibility and allowing different perspectives to exist, - which are blurred by her tactics and clickbait techniques.
Thank you again for this post, because I really started to think that something must be wrong with ME for not finding any reality-check.
It's sad, it really is. Especially because I do like her personality in a way, which held me back from getting real about what she sells...
Wishing you all the best! – Steph.
Hey Steph,
DeleteIt's really great you took the time to write such a thorough comment. I finally saw it & approved it!!!
Yes, I agree, Forleo is very likable and funny. But there is something VERY sinister about the way she squelches all negative comments about her business. If she were really transparent and had faith in the quality of her products, she'd be ok with the criticism.
It's really hard to tell fact from fiction in the promises of these self-help gurus. I was a "fan" or whatever of one of Forleo's protege, Blacksburg Belle, for some time. Maybe I mentioned this in my post. I mean, a lot of their message is kinda "keep on keepin on" which can be really helpful at times.
But not everyone can generate 10K followers, set up an online FB group, then charge everyone $20 a month to join. Just do the math--it doesn't work!
And I'm sorry that you felt sucked in for a time.
Nope, I don't think there's anything wrong with you for being skeptical of Forleo--another place that has been critical of her is the YouTube Channel, SavyWritesBooks, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N76Drhvah9o
Well thanks for your thoughtful comment. I wish you all the best as well ;)
Julie
This is a great article, and you are lucky you didn't invest. I want to leave a bit of a longer comment here and share my experience in case somebody comes across this and is thinking about taking the course. (Because I wasn’t as smart and actually fell for the bullshit.)
ReplyDeleteI took B-school in 2020, I followed all 8 weeks, watched every video, did all the Worksheets, listened to almost every office hour call, asked questions, and participated in the “community”. Here is my honest opinion why I think it’s not worth the money:
The course contains very basic information that can be learned by reading a few business books and watching a couple videos on youtube. She repackages popular business knowledge, creates fancy videos and worksheets and charges $2000 for it. It’s useful knowledge and it sure helps with building a business, but there is NO reason to spend that much money on it. If you buy around 20 books, you most likely get the same value for much less.
The office hour calls and lesson comments don’t add much value either. I asked a few questions hoping to get some actionable advice, but what they tell you is so generic that it is barely helpful. In Module One you craft your Ideal Client Avatar, and for most questions you are told to think about “her” and what she would want. That’s it. (And you also get some motivational fluff packed in between) It makes sense, because every business is unique and they aren’t really in a position to give you specific advice.
The community is nice, but it’s a facebook group and there’s free ones that are pretty much just as useful! After the 8 weeks were over, we were added to the fb group for alumni and it just wasn’t the same. The only reason I can think of to join for the community, is if B-school is full of your dream clients and you want to use the community to sell your services. (As of now, there isn’t a facebook group for B-school anymore. I don’t know how they will handle it in 2021, but I assume it will be a similar experience.)
The reasons I think there aren’t many negative reviews is that it’s not bad information. It’s basic business knowledge that yes, works. If the course had a price tag below $300 dollars, I would leave a good review as well. This is my opinion (as everything I have written here), but I believe that a lot of people took B-school and then became successful later with those two things not being more than correlation. B-school alone is not enough to have a successful business and many will invest in other courses/coaching after and then claim that b-school made them successful.
If you are about to start a business, finding and learning the information that is contained in B-school is probably the easiest part. Invest in some business books, but please don’t waste 2k like I did!
I hope this review can be helpful for someone who finds your article. Thanks for writing it and giving your opinion, as there really isn't much negative talk around B-school and we really need some ;)
- Annika
Hello Annika,
DeleteThank you for this thorough comment. I'm only just now seeing it, however, as I stopped blogging here about a year ago and completely forgot that comments were being filtered!
Anyway, now your great review is finally up on the internet for others to see and benefit from!
I agree, it's unfortunate that Forleo "manages her online reputation like a boss", i.e. she squelches all legitimate criticism of her methods for fleecing people!
As I look back over my post, the blog I linked to with 630 negative comments has been taken down! So THAT resource is gone, unfortunately. It makes me paranoid that now she's going to send one of google's hit men after me & my little blog, ha ha.
Yes that stuff about "envisioning your dream client" starts to sound really tired after you've heard it a million times. For $2K, shouldn't some of the onus be on THEM to craft some copy or something for reaching this dream client?
Well I am sure that you benefited as much as you could from B-school, as you were so dedicated to it. I wish you much success with your endeavors! And money always regenerates, so you haven't lost.
-Julie
I Googled, "does anyone else feel like Marie Forleo is phony?" and found myself here! Suffice to say, your thorough review has confirmed my intuition. I think she had a moment with her book launch with a compelling hook story about her mother repairing an old radio and exclaiming "everything is figureoutable," but from witnessing her conversations with thought leaders, rarely does she bring any fresh ideas of her own. She'll often nod with an understanding, guru-like "mhmmm" as though the words she's just heard are so compelling that she simply had to stop to take it in. I see through it, and think she knows that she doesn't have much more to contribute. I wouldn't trust her course. Like you said, I believe she's got tons of content for free already, and in any case, I would much more likely opt for someone else's free content, perhaps the true thought leaders that she interviews. Thanks for your piece!
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome, Brandon! Thank you for your comment. Yes, I think what we're probably getting of Forleo's life is a carefully and strategically curated story. This BS about coming from a home with a plastic couch, give me a break.
DeleteMaybe her best message is that "everything is figureoutable". I guess that's a good mantra if you're ever feeling stuck. But outside of that, I don't know that she's got a lot to say ;). Spend the $2K on developing some actual skills, I'd say. Or else something at Tiffanys, right?
Only honest review on the internet! Thanks for sharing, it's not 2k anymore , this year is 2.5k and no affiliates . I was seriously thinking get a loan and take this course but the fact that everything is positive reviews made me doubt 😞
ReplyDeleteHa, the only honest review she hasn't managed to get taken down off the internet, anyway :).
DeleteYeah, you're probably better off doing some deep dives into You Tube and learning some of the same information information for free.
Thanks for the comment. I'm just now seeing it, had abandoned this blog about a year ago ;).